Acorn Arcade forums: Games: Ideas for a bit of i/f
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Ideas for a bit of i/f |
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VinceH |
Message #101661, posted by VincceH at 16:24, 22/4/2007 |
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As per this thread I've decided to knock together a simple adventure game. The word 'simple' is important because it should mean I can get it up and running (if not actually finished) in time for Wakefield.
I've drawn a very rudimentary free-form map (which has lots of empty spaces to fill, but we can ignore that for now) and I'm ready to transfer that map onto a more rigidly definied grid for the game.
However, I'm at a complete blank for the plot of the game, which is probably quite important in order to describe things within the game appropriately. 
Heyelp!
Your starter for ten:
The map is in a forest (the main reason being that I have lots of pictures of woodland streams and paths - so it's very much a technical decision to set it in some kind of forest) which is itself fairly enclosed. North is a fast moving river, South and West are cliff faces. East can just be ignored because none of the paths I've drawn reach the right hand edge of the map.
So far, the only way to go East will be via the river. I'm thinking that might have to be the player's destination once he's done whatever it is he has to do in this map.
He starts up washed ashore about half way along the river (in terms of the map), on a path alongside a big stream leading into the river. As he was being washed downstream to this point, he noticed some kind of old ruin by the shore of the river (guess what I have suitable photos of). He's going to need to get something from that ruin, but the only way to get to it is to find his way up-river of it, and go in the water.
The river is strong enough that if he goes into it, he will be taken by the current - but go into the water at the right point and he'll be washed up where I want him to be, so that's okay. (Anywhere else, though, and he'll probably drown or something).
But why is he there? What does he have to do? |
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Andrew Rawnsley |
Message #101663, posted by arawnsley at 16:34, 22/4/2007, in reply to message #101661 |
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hmm, amnesia, washed up on a shoreline... this sounds like a Jap RPG!
He is either a) a secret weapon, b) a prince, c) both.
But since it is a text adventure, he's probably in a maze of twisty passages all alike and has to find xyzzy to win. In an old white house.
Alternatively, a forest setting is an ideal thing for a riff on little red riding hood and gingerbread houses and stuff, if you like doing a touch of Pratchet-esque reworking of fairy tales... |
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Phil Mellor |
Message #101664, posted by monkeyson2 at 16:36, 22/4/2007, in reply to message #101661 |
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You should do a Life on Mars with it, but instead of being a 70's cop, he's in a 70's text adventure. |
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Jeffrey Lee |
Message #101665, posted by Phlamethrower at 16:41, 22/4/2007, in reply to message #101664 |
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How old is this old ruin? 10-100 years? 100-300 years? 300-1000 years?
If it's fairly old, you could set it a few hundred years or so in the past, and the main character could be some kind of pirate/explorer. So he could be wandering around this forest in the search of a number of cities. Say, seven. And they would have to contain something of worth, so they could be made of some rare metal, like gold. But lots of strange, perhaps mysterious, things are associated with these cities which are made of rare and expensive metals such as gold.
Is it just me or does this plot sound familiar?
Also, there should be 3 children of different races, and some evil spaniards. |
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VinceH |
Message #101667, posted by VincceH at 17:35, 22/4/2007, in reply to message #101663 |
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hmm, amnesia, washed up on a shoreline... this sounds like a Jap RPG! Amnesia did cross my mind when I decided he was washed up on the shoreline.
I'd quite forgotten about that possibility until now. 
But since it is a text adventure, he's probably in a maze of twisty passages all alike and has to find xyzzy to win. In an old white house. Yes, but rather than twisty passages, they're dark forest paths. <thinks>I might have to darken my photos for that</thinks>
Alternatively, a forest setting is an ideal thing for a riff on little red riding hood and gingerbread houses and stuff, if you like doing a touch of Pratchet-esque reworking of fairy tales... That's one possible route - but it should be noted for the public record that I absolutely do not have anything even remotely looking like something that could possibly, even with a huge stretch of an imagination, considered to be a sense of humour.
In reply to Jeffrey:
How old is this old ruin? 10-100 years? 100-300 years? 300-1000 years? Longstone Manor (on the edge of Burrator reservoir), which dates from the early 1600s.
The only way that dates the game, though, is that the game must take place long enough after it fell into ruin that it now looks as it does - the game could be set in the future just as easily.
(And another thing here is that because the player accesses it from the river, I can use any photos I have of an old ruin, so long as the have a woodland/forest background; the picture can be seen from the player's POV, with the river behind him, out of sight)
Is it just me or does this plot sound familiar? Only like a huge number of adventure games out there.
Also, there should be 3 children of different races, and some evil spaniards. I read that as evil spanners the first time. Which would make for a funny game. (Hmm - Manic Miner in a text adventure setting. Maybe some other time .) |
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VinceH |
Message #101668, posted by VincceH at 17:41, 22/4/2007, in reply to message #101664 |
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You should do a Life on Mars with it, but instead of being a 70's cop, he's in a 70's text adventure. I like that idea!
In fact I love that idea.
"Having awakened at the side of a fast moving river, cold and wet, you glance down to see you are wearing a pair of tight trousers with flares, a flowered shirt with a huge collar, and a brown leather jacket. Anyone would think you'd woken up in the 70s or something. What next?"
It's great because I can more or less ignore "proper" plots, have completely inexplicable clues, prompts and objects - and indeed an implausible map; such as a phone box in the middle of the forest; why not? - and just make silly stuff up as I go along. |
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Phil Mellor |
Message #101669, posted by monkeyson2 at 17:50, 22/4/2007, in reply to message #101665 |
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Is it just me or does this plot sound familiar? Very mysterious.  |
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VinceH |
Message #101670, posted by VincceH at 17:53, 22/4/2007, in reply to message #101668 |
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You should do a Life on Mars with it, but instead of being a 70's cop, he's in a 70's text adventure. I like that idea!
In fact I love that idea.
And a quick glance reveals that on his Hunky Dory album (the source of the song and title Life on Mars) is a song called Quicksand - and every cliched 70s (and 80s and 90s) adventure game has to contain some quicksand for the unwary player. It's just too perfect, man.
So, just like the series Life on Mars being based on a Bowie song title, it looks like the game will be called Quicksand.
Now, where's my copy of Allocate to get the name registered... |
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VinceH |
Message #101679, posted by VincceH at 20:52, 22/4/2007, in reply to message #101670 |
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So, just like the series Life on Mars being based on a Bowie song title, it looks like the game will be called Quicksand.
Now, where's my copy of Allocate to get the name registered... Surprisingly enough, Quicksand hasn't been allocated already.
Although I couldn't remember anything with that name, I kind of suspected (because it's such an obvious name) that someone might have used it before now.
But I've just had the email back to say my allocation request has been approved. So that's okay. |
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VinceH |
Message #101722, posted by VincceH at 12:49, 24/4/2007, in reply to message #101679 |
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I've had enough time today to sit down and think about the plot and quest properly - and I've got one that works. It's very simple, but the idea was for something quick and easy anyway, because I don't have much spare time.
I won't give any details away, though, because it'll make the whole thing too easy to play - and it's going to be easy enough as it is! Before I've even written a line of script, I'd guess that if it takes someone an hour to complete, they must be rubbish at adventure games!
(Well, whaddya expect for a hastily penned in almost no spare time freebie?) |
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VinceH |
Message #101882, posted by VincceH at 19:32, 30/4/2007, in reply to message #101722 |
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I'd forgotten just how much fun it is to try to find lots of different ways to say "you are on a woodland path" when pretty much the entire game takes place in a wood.1
But that's that bit done - the map is done, and most of the locations are defined. (The few to add are wherever the woodland paths emerge onto the the river - in each case, the player can go into the water, but different things will happen at different points).
The script has been started; it sets up flags as to whether this clue has been seen, that clue has been heard, etc, and conditionally puts extra detail in the location descriptions accordingly.
I could <i>probably<i> at this point do a quick input loop in the script so I can wander around the map to test it (and make sure I've put the correct directional links in), but I think I'll leave that for now, and get on with the next bit - defining the objects.
I've also put some locations in the map that I don't have suitable pictures for, so I might have to go for a wander in the local woods at some point with my camera, trying not to look suspicious.
1. So, in fact, there is very little variation at all, because I'm more interested in getting it working first and foremost. I might expand the descriptions a little afterwards. |
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VinceH |
Message #101966, posted by VincceH at 13:12, 3/5/2007, in reply to message #101882 |
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I've been browsing my photo collection to identify the most suitable pictures - and discovered that I never did get around to scanning all my old prints, which is the form the most suitable pictures take (ie the many I have of woodland paths). AFAICR - the actual prints are in the darkest corner of my over-filled and TARDIS like cupboard, and there's no way I'm emptying that out to find them!
I don't have nearly enough suitable ones in digital form already - so I've decided to that at some point on Saturday I'm going to vanish in the direction of the Forest of Dean, to return either when my memory card is full, or Monday, whichever happens soonest.
Sigh. The efforts I go to for software development. |
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VinceH |
Message #102075, posted by VincceH at 07:38, 8/5/2007, in reply to message #101966 |
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Sigh. The efforts I go to for software development. And believe me, it was effort. Lots of it. I came back yesterday not only with blisters, but blisters on my blisters. And completely knackered.
But I do have lots of pictures.
With what I took this weekend, combined with some from those I already have, I should have most of the pictures needed for the game - though some of the location descriptions I've already entered will need changing to match the photos. The last few photos I need I'll get next weekend, locally.
And having gone to all that trouble, it occurred to me on the way home that for future reference (ie if I do any more adventure games) it would make more sense to take pictures of something in a suitable setting along the path, rather than of the path itself. An interesting tree, a fallen log, a stump - whatever; something that can appear in the description and match it. |
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VinceH |
Message #102125, posted by VincceH at 23:44, 10/5/2007, in reply to message #102075 |
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I've just spent ages wondering why Quicksand was falling over, puzzling over the files, studying the trellis interpreter code.
Absolutely ages.
Then I realised - I'd typed all the data files in on Windows. CRLF.
Trellis doesn't understand that sort of thing, because it's not something that ever crossed my mind when I was younger and niaive about such things.
Anyway, now that I've solved that I'm able to wander around the first section of map (and I've spotted a slight error here and there where I've accidentally swapped East and West). Next up, I need to give the appropriate clues, and open up the relevant parts of the map after each. |
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VinceH |
Message #102138, posted by VincceH at 22:54, 11/5/2007, in reply to message #102125 |
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You can see a poster nailed to a tree.
What now? Take poster
Okay. What now? Inv
You are carrying a poster nailed to a tree.
Oops.  |
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Sion |
Message #102160, posted by blasts of the xtre at 13:23, 13/5/2007, in reply to message #102138 |
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I'm guessing this will be a commercial release? |
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VinceH |
Message #102162, posted by VincceH at 15:03, 13/5/2007, in reply to message #102160 |
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I'm guessing this will be a commercial release? It'll be a free download from softrock.co.uk, and probably available to play on one of my machines at Wakefield (though it might be a touch unfinished).
Although I've not finished the script, yet, so the game can't be played to completion, I've been working through and adding in pictures. I had to modify Trellis to use jpegs (and I've changed it from MODE 15 to 321 so it's RPCs and later only) and while making those changes encountered some terrible bugs (and some shockingly bad programming) in Trellis - which I haven't really fixed, because I didn't want to spend any time on that.
For instance, I've discovered that if graphics are being used, the interpreter gets confused if any room doesn't have an associated graphic, and any room number above that one is treated as dark.
1. I was going to change it to "X800 Y600 C32K" which would work okay on anything with 1MB VRAM or more, but I can't find the right documentation ATM, and can't for the life of me remember how to make the machine return to the previous display settings when exiting. The system does it automagically with numbered modes. Plus the graphic is slightly off to one side by (I'd guess) 20 pixels. So without books, I'm sticking to MODE32 - same res, but only 256 colours. |
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Jeffrey Lee |
Message #102164, posted by Phlamethrower at 15:17, 13/5/2007, in reply to message #102162 |
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1. I was going to change it to "X800 Y600 C32K" which would work okay on anything with 1MB VRAM or more, but I can't find the right documentation ATM I'm assuming you're not using BASIC here, because for BASIC you just need to type 'HELP MODE' (Or at least RO 5 tells me it's "MODE <width>,<height>,<bpp>[,<framerate>]"). For non-BASIC, you'd want OS_ScreenMode.
and can't for the life of me remember how to make the machine return to the previous display settings when exiting. The system does it automagically with numbered modes. OS_ScreenMode again. Just remember that the pointer OS_ScreenMode 1 returns should be treated as unsigned, otherwise you may do what I did and cause your program to crash under RISC OS 5 because it was treating pointers to mode specifier blocks as mode numbers and so (a) not making a copy of the mode data and (b) passing the original pointer back to the OS, long after the OS will have overwritten the original block with something else. Although, really it's the WIMP to blame for not being able to reliably restore the mode itself anymore.
Plus the graphic is slightly off to one side by (I'd guess) 20 pixels. So without books, I'm sticking to MODE32 - same res, but only 256 colours. Well, that's just your monitor, isn't it?
[Edited by Phlamethrower at 16:23, 13/5/2007] |
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VinceH |
Message #102166, posted by VincceH at 16:41, 13/5/2007, in reply to message #102164 |
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1. I was going to change it to "X800 Y600 C32K" which would work okay on anything with 1MB VRAM or more, but I can't find the right documentation ATM I'm assuming you're not using BASIC here,
Trellis itself is written in BASIC, yes. I haven't seriously done anything in BASIC in a hell of a long time, though, so I'm seriously rusty with it.
because for BASIC you just need to type 'HELP MODE' (Or at least RO 5 tells me it's "MODE <width>,<height>,<bpp>[,<framerate>]"). I think RO5 has a slight improvement, then - I'm pretty sure that with older BASICs you have the choice of MODE modenumber or MODE "specifierstring" (like the one above).
It can be used as a function (n=MODE) to return the current MODE, but I'm not sure what it returns if it's not a numbered MODE. I think it's a pointer to a mode specifier block, but I can't be certain (HELP doesn't say). If it does, then it would make good sense for it to be able to act on such a block, but that doesn't work. (I tried it).
For non-BASIC, you'd want OS_ScreenMode. Drobe has manuals online? I didn't know that!
and can't for the life of me remember how to make the machine return to the previous display settings when exiting. The system does it automagically with numbered modes. OS_ScreenMode again. Just remember that the pointer OS_ScreenMode 1 returns should be treated as unsigned, otherwise you may do what I did and cause your program to crash under RISC OS 5 because it was treating pointers to mode specifier blocks as mode numbers and so (a) not making a copy of the mode data and (b) passing the original pointer back to the OS, long after the OS will have overwritten the original block with something else. Although, really it's the WIMP to blame for not being able to reliably restore the mode itself anymore.
Plus the graphic is slightly off to one side by (I'd guess) 20 pixels. So without books, I'm sticking to MODE32 - same res, but only 256 colours. Well, that's just your monitor, isn't it?
I'm not sure. If I return to the desktop still in that mode, everything's correctly positioned. (Plus I've never seen that happen before on this laptop when I've used a non-native resolution - and there don't appear to be any controls that I can see to handle such problems)
I'll have a little play, anyway and see what happens. Thanks for the pointer. |
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Jeffrey Lee |
Message #102167, posted by Phlamethrower at 16:59, 13/5/2007, in reply to message #102166 |
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It can be used as a function (n=MODE) to return the current MODE, but I'm not sure what it returns if it's not a numbered MODE. I think it's a pointer to a mode specifier block, but I can't be certain (HELP doesn't say). If it does, then it would make good sense for it to be able to act on such a block, but that doesn't work. (I tried it). Yes, it returns a pointer to a specifier block. So you'd have to parse/copy it manually, then restore via a reconstructed specifier string or OS_ScreenMode. |
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VinceH |
Message #102168, posted by VincceH at 18:16, 13/5/2007, in reply to message #102167 |
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Yes, it returns a pointer to a specifier block. So you'd have to parse/copy it manually, then restore via a reconstructed specifier string or OS_ScreenMode. In fact - I think you said this in the previous comment, and I failed to notice it - it seems that if I set the mode I want using OS_ScreenMode, when the game returns control to the WIMP it handles the change back automagically (just like using MODE number does)
I realised this by accident - because when I started playing with OS_ScreenMode following your post, I used it to read (and copy) the previous mode, set the mode for the game using MODE "X800 Y600 C32K", and then used OS_ScreenMode to change mode back to what it was before.
It changed the mode, put "Please press space or click mouse to continue" on a nice blank screen in that mode, then changed 'back' to 800x600x32kcols for the desktop.
So now the Trellis just does an OS_ScreenMode,0,specblock in a couple of places and that's that.
I've also just realised that 16 million colours at 800x600 is around 960kB and therefore fits in the 1meg VRAM, so I'll change it to that. |
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Jeffrey Lee |
Message #102169, posted by Phlamethrower at 18:24, 13/5/2007, in reply to message #102168 |
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In fact - I think you said this in the previous comment, and I failed to notice it - it seems that if I set the mode I want using OS_ScreenMode, when the game returns control to the WIMP it handles the change back automagically (just like using MODE number does) Are you sure about that? It doesn't do it for me 
You're using Select, right? Maybe they decided to add a useful feature for once |
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VinceH |
Message #102170, posted by VincceH at 18:35, 13/5/2007, in reply to message #102169 |
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In fact - I think you said this in the previous comment, and I failed to notice it - it seems that if I set the mode I want using OS_ScreenMode, when the game returns control to the WIMP it handles the change back automagically (just like using MODE number does) Are you sure about that? It doesn't do it for me
Yup. Using OS_ScreenMode,0,specblock behaves exactly the same way MODE number does - in that the previous screen resolution and colour depth is restored when the program ends.
(Note, I literally do mean ends, as in with END - it doesn't sit on the icon bar and only take over the screen when the game's being played.)
You're using Select, right? Maybe they decided to add a useful feature for once Except that if it doesn't behave the same way on Iyonix (and pre-Select machines) it's a useless inconsistency rather than a useful feature  |
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VinceH |
Message #102171, posted by VincceH at 18:40, 13/5/2007, in reply to message #102170 |
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Oh, and I discovered why things were offset slightly - I had previously specified that pictures be 64 pixels short of the width of the screen, and whatever height I'd specified, because I was considering adding an optional 32pixel user specified border.
Why I only noticed it in a 32000 colour mode, I don't know - a quick test later showed it was definitely offsetting the images by 32 pixels in 256 colours as well, which it should have been under the circumstances, and I just didn't see it. |
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VinceH |
Message #102184, posted by VincceH at 14:28, 14/5/2007, in reply to message #102171 |
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The graphics directory contains approx. 4MB of JPEGs.
I won't be squeezing the game on the same floppy disc as WebChange, then. |
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VinceH |
Message #102270, posted by VincceH at 22:57, 17/5/2007, in reply to message #102184 |
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Right then.
Still to be done:- More pictures. It was raining too much at the weekend, so I couldn't venture into the local woods as I'd intended to get the last few. I'm currently using a BBC test card as a temporary image for the locations that don't have pictures.
- The ending isn't coded - and I also need to link certain other locations with the initial start point.
- Humour. There is none.
Things that will be done tomorrow before I set off:- None of the above
- Just tidy up some loose ends and make it playable, if not possible to complete.
- Set up the RPC to check the WebChange discs.
- Prior to that, find all the leads - and hope the RPC still works!
 - Pack up and go!
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Phil Mellor |
Message #102271, posted by monkeyson2 at 22:59, 17/5/2007, in reply to message #102184 |
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The graphics directory contains approx. 4MB of JPEGs.
I won't be squeezing the game on the same floppy disc as WebChange, then. Write it so it fetches the images directly from the interwebs |
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VinceH |
Message #102274, posted by VincceH at 08:01, 18/5/2007, in reply to message #102271 |
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The graphics directory contains approx. 4MB of JPEGs.
I won't be squeezing the game on the same floppy disc as WebChange, then. Write it so it fetches the images directly from the interwebs
Between this morning and this afternoon (I'll probably set off around 5ish), along with all the other preparation for the show tomorrow? No chance.
Besides, I'm not sure if I can afford the excessive bandwidth that would use up if all three games playing RISC OS users played it at once. |
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VinceH |
Message #102285, posted by VincceH at 15:38, 18/5/2007, in reply to message #102270 |
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Right then.
Still to be done:- More pictures. It was raining too much at the weekend, so I couldn't venture into the local woods as I'd intended to get the last few. I'm currently using a BBC test card as a temporary image for the locations that don't have pictures.
- The ending isn't coded - and I also need to link certain other locations with the initial start point.
- Humour. There is none.
I've now coded a rudimentary ending, so the game can now be played to completion. With the map in front of me, it takes me about 8 minutes!
But then, I do know what all the clues mean and so on, so perhaps I shouldn't use myself as a metric.
There are now a couple of minor attempts at humour (and at least one reference to the Life on Mars series) - but still barely noticeable. This is an area that needs work.
Things that will be done tomorrow before I set off:- None of the above
- Just tidy up some loose ends and make it playable, if not possible to complete.
- Set up the RPC to check the WebChange discs.
- Prior to that, find all the leads - and hope the RPC still works!
- Pack up and go!
All except the last one - done! |
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VinceH |
Message #102606, posted by VincceH at 08:23, 2/6/2007, in reply to message #102270 |
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More pictures. It was raining too much at the weekend, so I couldn't venture into the local woods as I'd intended to get the last few. I was up at around 4:30am this morning, and in Blaise Woods by about 5:30 to have a bash at getting the last of the pictures(mostly1). (This early because it's a popular wood for dog walkers - I don't want people in the pictures for the game, so I didn't want to end up standing around waiting for people to vanish and hoping nobody else turned up in the meantime!)
The main objectives were some pictures of a path and stream as it passes alongside an old watermill, and an old disused tennis court.
I mapped it so that the mill could be seen as you approach from paths on either side of the stream - but in practice that didn't work so well because the greenery on one side as you follow the path down the hill, where many years ago it afforded a nice view of the mill, is now so overgrown it's just a building you can see through the vegetation. Indeed, even down on the lower path on the other side, it's not obvious that it's actually a water mill. It really just looks like an old building - the stream side of it is quite overgrown, and the wheel doesn't really stand out as much as I'd like. It'll still work for in the game, though - but it seems that I could just as easily have used pictures of any old building and claimed it was a water mill in the game.
The tennis court turned out to be a bonus; I had one in mind (strictly, in Shirehampton Park rather than Blaise Wood) - I was expecting to be able to take pictures from outside the fence, which is fine for three or four locations in the game) but ideally I wanted two from inside, where I thought I might have had to munge other images to give a false impression of being inside the tennis court - but as it happened, the fence was down on one side so I was able to just wander in.
1. I still sort of need about three more pictures, but they're very specific in terms of what I need and, as such, might be hard to get. But I might be able to get away with more general pictures I already have if I fiddle the wording carefully enough. |
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Acorn Arcade forums: Games: Ideas for a bit of i/f |
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