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Arcem et al |
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Jeffrey Lee |
Message #82293, posted by Phlamethrower at 00:41, 4/11/2006 |
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Are there any other ARM emulators capable of running RISC OS that can run on (ARM) linux? |
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Peter Naulls |
Message #82313, posted by pnaulls at 15:38, 4/11/2006, in reply to message #82293 |
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Are there any other ARM emulators capable of running RISC OS that can run on (ARM) linux? http://www.riscos.info/index.php/RPCEmu
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Jeffrey Lee |
Message #82315, posted by Phlamethrower at 16:51, 4/11/2006, in reply to message #82313 |
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Well, ArcEm is almost working now, so I guess I'll stick with that. |
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Jeffrey Lee |
Message #82316, posted by Phlamethrower at 17:31, 4/11/2006, in reply to message #82315 |
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Ah, things work better if I install a window manager  |
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Bryan Hogan |
Message #82608, posted by helpful at 12:45, 9/11/2006, in reply to message #82316 |
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That looks like it is running on a Zaurus? I'd be very interested in that  |
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Jeffrey Lee |
Message #82610, posted by Phlamethrower at 13:06, 9/11/2006, in reply to message #82608 |
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Yes, it is 
It's dreadfully slow though, and the mouse wasn't working (probably because I need to remap something to keypad + so that ArcEm will capture the pointer).
I'm planning on writing a Qt user interface for it, which I'm assuming will solve some of the slowness and will allow me to work around some of the deficiencies of the system (Like, having to work with a stylus instead of a mouse). It'll also save the casual Zaurus user from having to install X11.
I might get a chance to work on it this weekend, but haven't written anything for Qt before so it may take a few days to get running. |
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Phil Mellor |
Message #82615, posted by monkeyson2 at 16:47, 9/11/2006, in reply to message #82610 |
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I might get a chance to work on it this weekend, but haven't written anything for Qt before so it may take a few days to get running. No, no, you're already booked in to work on secret things this weekend. |
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Jeffrey Lee |
Message #82616, posted by Phlamethrower at 17:23, 9/11/2006, in reply to message #82615 |
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I might get a chance to work on it this weekend, but haven't written anything for Qt before so it may take a few days to get running. No, no, you're already booked in to work on secret things this weekend.
Ah, yes.
All hail BeOS! |
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richard cheng |
Message #82631, posted by richcheng at 10:41, 10/11/2006, in reply to message #82616 |
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I've asked this question before, I'm aware, but have any of you lot actually ever tried BeOS? It sounds like it was very awesome, but I never managed to get it installed, myself. |
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Adrian Lees |
Message #82656, posted by adrianl at 17:37, 10/11/2006, in reply to message #82631 |
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I've asked this question before, I'm aware, but have any of you lot actually ever tried BeOS? Yes. |
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richard cheng |
Message #82902, posted by richcheng at 12:14, 13/11/2006, in reply to message #82656 |
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I've asked this question before, I'm aware, but have any of you lot actually ever tried BeOS? Yes.
Was it very awesome? |
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Simon Wilson |
Message #94647, posted by ksattic at 20:41, 28/11/2006, in reply to message #82631 |
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have any of you lot actually ever tried BeOS? Yes, I liked it, but back in the day I had no real reason to move from RISC OS/Windows.
It played nicely with my PCI cards too, and I could watch TV using my TV card without having to install any software. |
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Peter Howkins |
Message #94689, posted by flibble at 11:34, 29/11/2006, in reply to message #82610 |
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Yes, it is
It's dreadfully slow though.
If that's on the zaurus I wouldn't expect more than 4 emulated mips (ARM 2 speed), and probably slower due to the poor MHz/MIPS performance of ARM comapared to x86.
and the mouse wasn't working (probably because I need to remap something to keypad + so that ArcEm will capture the pointer).
I'm planning on writing a Qt user interface for it, which I'm assuming will solve some of the slowness
Might fix some redraw speed issues on your platform, but the prog itself is heavily CPU bound.
and will allow me to work around some of the deficiencies of the system (Like, having to work with a stylus instead of a mouse). It'll also save the casual Zaurus user from having to install X11.
Interesting I'd incorrectly figured QT would be on top of X11, but if Zaurus has a QT->framebuffer implimentation (instead of QT->X11->framebuffer) then yeah a QT port might speed it up a fair bit.
I might get a chance to work on it this weekend, but haven't written anything for Qt before so it may take a few days to get running.
I've no experience in QT, but I've talked people through porting Arcem before, let me know if you get stuck.
You might this useful,
http://www.home.marutan.net/HardImage1.v001.gz
A 60MB harddisk image with sensible universal boot and other things that I probably have no right to distribute. |
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Jeffrey Lee |
Message #94691, posted by Phlamethrower at 12:16, 29/11/2006, in reply to message #94689 |
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If that's on the zaurus I wouldn't expect more than 4 emulated mips (ARM 2 speed), and probably slower due to the poor MHz/MIPS performance of ARM comapared to x86. ARM 2 speed is fine. But at the moment it takes at least a minute to boot into RISC OS 3.
Interesting I'd incorrectly figured QT would be on top of X11, but if Zaurus has a QT->framebuffer implimentation (instead of QT->X11->framebuffer) then yeah a QT port might speed it up a fair bit. Yeah, QT on the Zaurus goes straight to the framebuffer.
I've no experience in QT, but I've talked people through porting Arcem before, let me know if you get stuck. ArcEm looks like it should be easy enough to figure out. I suspect the hardest part will be learning QT.
You might this useful,
http://www.home.marutan.net/HardImage1.v001.gz
A 60MB harddisk image with sensible universal boot and other things that I probably have no right to distribute. Cheers |
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Peter Howkins |
Message #94695, posted by flibble at 12:30, 29/11/2006, in reply to message #94691 |
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If that's on the zaurus I wouldn't expect more than 4 emulated mips (ARM 2 speed), and probably slower due to the poor MHz/MIPS performance of ARM comapared to x86. ARM 2 speed is fine. But at the moment it takes at least a minute to boot into RISC OS 3.
Giving the speed you just gave me, I'd expect terrible performance, a real arm2 machine boots up in under 5 seconds, So you need to make it 'a bit' faster.
A 400Mhz x86 processor gives approx 4 emulated MIPS
Your 400Mhz ARM appears to be giving ~0.3 emulated MIPS, and people wonder why no high CPU load apps run on RISC OS  |
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Jeffrey Lee |
Message #95201, posted by Phlamethrower at 23:35, 3/12/2006, in reply to message #94691 |
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I've no experience in QT, but I've talked people through porting Arcem before, let me know if you get stuck. ArcEm looks like it should be easy enough to figure out. I suspect the hardest part will be learning QT.
Actually, I do have one question. At the moment ArcEm is in control of the program, making callbacks to the frontend when necessary. But for Qt, Qt needs to be in control, making callbacks to the user code.
So if I were to place some form of timer in ARMul_Emulate26() that pauses the emulation and returns control to Qt, would that work without breaking anything? Or is there some hidden thing to break out the execution that I haven't spotted yet? |
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Andrew Flegg |
Message #95218, posted by Jaffa at 09:39, 4/12/2006, in reply to message #82610 |
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ArcEm (and RISC OS in general) likes mouse movements more than actual mouse clicks, which makes using it with a stylus "interesting".
I only had a quick look when doing the rough & ready Maemo/Nokia 770 port, but is there any work on stylus-based interfaces which would be reusable?
Thanks in advance,
Andrew |
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Jeffrey Lee |
Message #95222, posted by Phlamethrower at 10:37, 4/12/2006, in reply to message #95218 |
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I only had a quick look when doing the rough & ready Maemo/Nokia 770 port, but is there any work on stylus-based interfaces which would be reusable? None that I've done so far - I only got round to compiling an interface-less version of ArcEm last night.
But the Zaurus has 5 extra user-configurable buttons. By default these are used to launch some of the PIM programs, but it's also possible for individual programs to override their use. So I'm thinking that I could use 3 of them to emulate the different mouse buttons - e.g. by default tapping/holding with the stylus would be Select, but if you hold down one of the extra buttons then it may be Adjust, or Menu. And one of the buttons would cause no mice buttons to be pressed, in the rare occasion where a program needs you to move the mouse without pressing anything. |
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Phil Mellor |
Message #95225, posted by monkeyson2 at 11:58, 4/12/2006, in reply to message #95222 |
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And one of the buttons would cause no mice buttons to be pressed, in the rare occasion where a program needs you to move the mouse without pressing anything. Rare occasion? Such as moving the mouse over the pinboard without dragging a box over your files, or over a document without selecting all your text?
I'd have thought no-click would have to be the default...? |
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Jeffrey Lee |
Message #95227, posted by Phlamethrower at 12:09, 4/12/2006, in reply to message #95225 |
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You seem to be forgetting that, unless you're actually pressing the stylus against the screen, no click events are being generated. And it doesn't really matter to most programs whether the pointer moves smoothly from one location to another or whether it jumps to the new location and starts making click events. |
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Phil Mellor |
Message #95228, posted by monkeyson2 at 12:13, 4/12/2006, in reply to message #95227 |
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You seem to be forgetting that, unless you're actually pressing the stylus against the screen, no click events are being generated. And it doesn't really matter to most programs whether the pointer moves smoothly from one location to another or whether it jumps to the new location and starts making click events. I am forgetting that. |
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Andrew Flegg |
Message #95242, posted by Jaffa at 13:39, 4/12/2006, in reply to message #95222 |
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... is there any work on stylus-based interfaces which would be reusable? None that I've done so far - I only got round to compiling an interface-less version of ArcEm last night.
Sorry, I was more thinking relative movements (generated by a mouse) vs. absolute movements (generated when a stylus is touched to a screen). As I said, I only had a quick look and not much thinking about it: is there any code in ArcEm to help turned an absolute position into a series of relaitve movements which RISC OS is expecting? |
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Jeffrey Lee |
Message #96030, posted by Phlamethrower at 22:37, 20/12/2006, in reply to message #95242 |
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After a fair amount of poking, I've now managed to compile a version that will initialise the emulator and then open a Qt window. So now I just need to add the I/O gubbins and hook up the modified ARMul_Emulate26() function.
As I said, I only had a quick look and not much thinking about it: is there any code in ArcEm to help turned an absolute position into a series of relaitve movements which RISC OS is expecting? No idea at the moment - but I'll let you know if/when I find out |
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Jeffrey Lee |
Message #96031, posted by Phlamethrower at 00:31, 21/12/2006, in reply to message #95242 |
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As I said, I only had a quick look and not much thinking about it: is there any code in ArcEm to help turned an absolute position into a series of relaitve movements which RISC OS is expecting? It doesn't look like it. But it should be possible to write an extension ROM/module that allows the cursor to be moved to an absolute position. |
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Peter Howkins |
Message #96034, posted by flibble at 02:23, 21/12/2006, in reply to message #96031 |
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As I said, I only had a quick look and not much thinking about it: is there any code in ArcEm to help turned an absolute position into a series of relaitve movements which RISC OS is expecting? It doesn't look like it. But it should be possible to write an extension ROM/module that allows the cursor to be moved to an absolute position.
Erm, can't you remember the last (host) position of the mouse, then when a new movement occurs, look at the new (host) position and generate a relative movement based on the difference between the two? (and then store the new (host) position as the last (host) position and repeat)
That way it should work in things other than RISC OS. Whereas rommodules are RO only. |
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Jeffrey Lee |
Message #96037, posted by Phlamethrower at 09:45, 21/12/2006, in reply to message #96034 |
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Erm, can't you remember the last (host) position of the mouse, then when a new movement occurs, look at the new (host) position and generate a relative movement based on the difference between the two? (and then store the new (host) position as the last (host) position and repeat) Yes - but that doesn't give you any guarantee that the pointer will move to the location you tap the stylus at. The only way you'd be able to guarantee the position would be to know the mouse step values (which would require support from the OS) or use the position of the cursor sprite (which may or may not be attached to the cursor and so may be completely worthless). |
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Phil Mellor |
Message #96038, posted by monkeyson2 at 10:35, 21/12/2006, in reply to message #96037 |
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Liquid Silicon had a touch screen working with RISC OS at the last couple of Wakefield shows. You could hold down for a few seconds to simulate menu/adjust clicks. |
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Andrew |
Message #96052, posted by andrew at 12:09, 21/12/2006, in reply to message #96038 |
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So does Zaurus represent the cheapest portable RISC OS solution? |
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Jeffrey Lee |
Message #96055, posted by Phlamethrower at 12:36, 21/12/2006, in reply to message #96052 |
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I wouldn't go that far yet - it depends on how well I can get ArcEm running. I may also have a go at RPCEmu, so it can run newer versions of RISC OS.
Another possibility would be to run RISC OS natively - but it's doubtful whether anyone would put the time/effort into developing that. |
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Andrew Flegg |
Message #96070, posted by Jaffa at 16:18, 21/12/2006, in reply to message #96055 |
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In addition to picking up the Nokia 770 port (I'll leave sorting the mouse issue to you ;-)), I might try it on a Psion Netbook running Linux, since I'm planning on re-Linuxing my Netbook at some point soon.
An ARM-on-ARM JIT for ArcEm or RPCEmu would be very nice, though. |
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